A Bad Case of Hormone-itis

                                                    Episode 11 A Bad Case of Hormone-itis


00:05 Intro (Becky)

Welcome to the Odd Ones Out podcast. If you ever feel like you're on the outside looking in, you are not alone. Let's challenge our limiting beliefs and embrace who we truly are.

00:25
Becky:
Hello, hello and welcome back to the Odd Ones Out podcast. I'm Beck... 

Maz:
I'm Maz. 

Becky:
It's really lovely to have you join us. So as I said, welcome back. If you've listened to previous episodes and you're still with us, amazing, thank you so much. If this is the first time you've heard one of our podcast episodes, then where on earth have you been? Go back and listen to them. 

We are, following on the trend, hopefully you listened to the previous episode where we were explaining the journey so far, going through the root convictions and driving behaviours, things that run in parallel and can act as obstacles in our day-to-day life from reaching our full potential, from having those carefree, deal with things as they come, being happy, being content, the things that obviously pretty much everyone really wants out of life, the things that hold us back from achieving those.

And now we're into a bit more of an uncharted territory in as much as there is no formal structure of us, this is what we are going to share. What we had said, and just to recap if you have listened, in the previous episode is that we are going to do things now as and when they come up, aren't we? So things like events. Perhaps there's an event coming up that might trigger something for us, we'll talk about it. If there's something in the news or podcasts we've listened to or an experience that we're having, we'll talk about it. And it might just be that it's something that's adds to what we've previously discussed, something we might struggle against, or preferably over time, things that we are trialling, experimenting with to help us feel better. 

Maz:
Yeah, because obviously we want to strike a balance where we're very open and transparent about the things we struggle with, but also the flip side, which is that we do frequently actually try things out and try and build things into our weekly routine that might alleviate some of the issues we might encounter or the effects of some of those issues. And so I think going forwards perhaps we'll talk about them as well. So it's a bit of a mixture of things. 

Becky:
We don't want it being doom and gloom. 

Maz:
No, exactly. 

Becky:
"And another thing I struggle with!"

Maz:
Yeah, we don't want that at all.

02:44
Becky:
Yeah, so I've asked Maz if I can slightly lead this episode only because there's been something that's been in the back of my mind running for a week or so. And I think why not talk about it? And actually, the whole point of talking about it, I'm just going to quickly touch on something that helps me that if it weren't for Maz, I probably wouldn't do and would suffer from the consequence of not doing. And so this is just if you are in my camp, I can't stress enough: the importance of communication. Because when I am finding things hard, the first thing I do is really grab hold of my introvert tendencies, insist on being self-reliant, focus on the resilience that I've built up over the years and just dig deep and deal with it. 

Now that makes me quite resourceful. I can roll my sleeves up, I can deal with something. But then it still has some kind of emotional or mental impact on me for later down the line because I've not shared it. 

Maz:
Yeah, and I think that there's too much of an emphasis still really on being self-reliant and somehow that being self-reliant, if you achieve something with a mindset of self-reliance, it has more value. And if you've had to rely on help, that somehow that takes away from it. But I think that's changing over time. 

Becky:
Yeah. And so I think, I mean, obviously you might be in a relationship or not, where you're unable to have a partner who will be there as a confidant or whatever. But I just can't stress enough through all of the things that Maz and I kind of go through, his insistence on us talking about them and being honest with how we're feeling and how it affects us has helped me grow as a person. 

Maz:
I'm a nag! 

Becky:
Yeah, he is! But to my benefit. So I just wanted to say that because it also leads in quite well to the fact that I want to talk today about menopause or perimenopause.

And even as I say that, I sigh inside. I have been conditioned, especially when younger, with how I grew up, where I would notice that the whole term of menopause and what women were going through would be a complete taboo topic or something to be laughed at because women were menopausal rottweilers or whatever, similar to, "oh, it's her time of the month". I don't understand why it's so difficult for us generally, men and women, to talk about issues that relate to either gender when actually when there's an issue that affects one person it affects the other. 
So whether you are um uh going through the pair of menopause or menopause with a partner who is going through the same or not or hasn't experienced it before, how on earth do you cope with it without communicating and being honest with yourself about how bloody tough it is, and also being fair, appreciating the fact that it might be affecting those around us? So if we don't communicate, how can things be a bit easier? 

05;44
Maz:
Yeah, yeah. 

Becky:
So I wanted to start, because I'm going to go through some of the things that I experience with you, just in case you're listening, because you know someone or have known someone who's been through it and you're like, oh, that's what they were experiencing. I know everyone's not the same, but just in case it helps. But I actually want to start with asking Maz:  knowing I started HRT a few weeks ago, I've obviously started something because I've been troubled by my hormones for up to a year now. And I know I feel like an absolute witch, but I don't care. That's the problem. I don't care when I feel like a witch. I feel quite belligerent, quite self-righteous. So I wanted to ask you, on the outside in, and also someone who's affected by it, I'm assuming, how does it make you feel and what do I or should I do that kind of makes it worse or better? 

Maz:
I think really it goes back to what you were saying at the start really, which is communication. I mean, I'm obviously as you said, a big advocate for communicating. I think everything can be talked about in one way or another. I don't think that there needs to be any level of embarrassment or shame or whatever it might be. Nothing's really taboo in my mind. I think that really, I mean I've noticed a difference I'd say probably over the last year. Because as you've discussed before, sometimes when you're...when you come under stress, you tend to deal with things by shutting yourself away a little bit, or you might kind of lash out in a sort of a minor way. You might, you know, get a little bit angry about things and shut down a bit to be able to cope with whatever you're dealing with. I suppose I've noticed a bit more of that over the last year, but I think actually it may be affecting you, well, obviously it affects you more.

But I think you've built up a picture in your mind of this particularly kind of scary, unknown quantity that's on the horizon. And maybe you're assuming that it's translating to the real world and it's there kind of all the time for all to see. I think the reality is I've seen a bit of a change in your personality, a bit more of a switch from calm, sort of sedate, normal you to kind of the world's shit and I can't deal with it.

I think that the main thing for me is, and we discussed this, I think it was last night wasn't it? I feel like I can deal with most of that sort of quite readily if I know that it's going on. And I think sometimes for me anyway, it might be different for other people, it just helps to know that that's what's motivating the reaction to something. And it's a sort of a hormonal thing rather than a, you're just having a bad day or you're kind of reversing back to patterns that you used to rely on, which was to, as I say, shut down and kind of keep the world at bay and sort of lick your wounds.

Sometimes for me, it can be difficult to differentiate between the two if you're just having a bad day or if it is a hormonal thing. So it really helps me when you're able to say, do you know what, Maz? I think I'm having one of those days. I might end up sort of lashing out a bit or being in a particularly sort of grumpy mood heads up.

09:20
Becky:
Yeah, because I think that's the thing. I'm not currently experiencing things like hot flashes, night sweats. I don't have the physical symptoms so much as actually how I'm feeling. And I think that's pretty much any, and I know blokes get hormone kind of issues as well. I'm not going to detract from that, but I'm just going to focus on the fact that women have obviously have the hormone things from puberty onwards and any time that those hormones are in flux, then yeah, we experience wide-ranging emotions from feeling very upset to very angry to whatever. Although you say your mum was incredibly even keel, which I'm well-jel about, and she says herself, she didn't really feel like she went through the menopause, which is amazing. My mum says the same. She's open about the fact that she went through it in her early 30s, pretty soon after I was born but didn't have any symptoms. And that's all cool.

What I did have was my first job working with a lady who was obviously in retrospect going through it and struggling with it. And at a time where HRT was a big no-no, so wasn't taking it because there was this whole hoo-ha about don't take HRT because you'll get cancer or whatever it was that was big scaremongering in the 90s. And she was an absolute bitch to work with. It was fucking awful. She'd walk through the door and you'd know immediately when she walked through the door with that scowl on her face that you were in for a shit day. You just knew it and I don't know how I stuck it out for so long.
And now I feel quite compassionate because I'm like, she must have been feeling terrible to have been in that kind of mood constantly. If at the time she had said, "look, cards on the table, I'm going through the menopause and I'm finding this really difficult and it's making me angry at times and this and that, ignore me if you can, or tell me when I'm being out of order so that I know it and I try my best to listen", maybe it would have been a better environment to have worked in. And if there'd been some level of communication, obviously it's quite personal. She is the boss, I was her employee, but you're also a boutique agency and you couldn't hide from anybody. 

So all I'm saying from the receiving end, maybe you're listening to this and it's your Mum, your aunt, your older sister or whatever going through it, at the end of the day, encouraging them to say, what's going on, like by saying what's going on, you seem not yourself. Possibly when they're not right in the middle of it! 

Maz:
Yeah. 

Becky:
Because if someone asked me that when I'm right in the middle of it, I'd be like, fuck off!
 
11;44
Maz:
Well, but that's the key thing. It's like, I think we were talking about this yesterday, again, and I think I was saying to you, do you know what, it would help me if you could tell me that you're in that kind of mood when you're like 80% there. I try. Rather than once you got to 100. 

Becky:
Oh, it's not happening. 

Maz:
It's not going to happen. 

Becky:
It's not, I don't care. 

Maz:
Yeah.

12:02
Becky:
I've have been looking at Maz and he has done nothing. He's walked into a room and sat down And I'm looking at him thinking: the way he sat down...we need a divorce! Sorry! 

Maz:
How to make someone not feel self-conscious!
 
Becky:
But I'm not being flippant. I'm not saying this for humour effect. 

Maz:
No, I know 

Becky:
Seriously when I am in that frame of mind I like..nothing is worth my time. And I could literally just walk into the sunset in that moment, not give a shit, and say goodbye to everything. It's that bad. And I don't care. There is no balancing voice going, oh, do you really mean this? Are you sure? It's like, of course I'm sure. This is exactly how I feel. I am so fucked off, angry, whatever. I just need to push everything away.

And I don't care who I hurt because it's me and I'm the one that's against the world. The world's really hard. And so I think trying to catch it at 80%, I promise you, babe, I really promise you. Because later on, when I'm in it and I've walked off and I've stormed off or I've shouted or done whatever, then I will be like, don't care. 24 hours later, I'm like, ah, there's still an element of the don't care because I couldn't help it, but at the same time, feeling pretty guilty.

And I'd rather not have that and I also don't want you or the girls affected by my crappy mood But also in terms of feeling if I just add one more thing I've been reading a bit more about it and I hear how it's affecting, you know female pilots have been pilots of airplanes for decades and then they actually break down in tears because they can't they've forgotten how to parallel park and they're really struggling with spatial awareness and to get that car into gear. Or CEO of multinational organisation can't go to the shops without forgetting five of the things that she's supposed to buy and has no idea how she's supposed to run a company when she can't even remember her shopping list properly.
And so there are, it's not just the hot flashes and the night sweats that can affect someone, it's also, it diminishes your capability. It makes you feel incredibly vulnerable. Maybe I suffer from anger with it because of my anger issues, I have no idea. Maybe that's my flight, fight response, whatever. And somebody else just cries all the time, I have no idea. But I just feel like, first of all, I just wanted to say I promise this is different. I can't help it when I've hit that 100%, whatever I'm doing, I'm lost. I am completely lost. And that's what worries me for you on the receiving end.

14;46
Maz:
.......*silence*!
Yeah, I think, but that's why I think it's not only important to talk about these things, but also it's kind of formulaic and perhaps overthinking about it a little bit. It's quite useful to have a plan for when those things do happen. I think it would be easy, I can see that it would be very easy for a situation to sort of unfold where somebody was going through this, ended up having those hormonal episodes where they just weren't themselves and wanted everyone and everything to fuck off and disappear. Didn't communicate it. And then as you say, 24 hours later, felt guilty about it, but then didn't really want to go back into it because it's kind of, you want to move on. I think that's where the problems could potentially really start. I think it's just about finding a way of riding that storm when it comes. And that's everyone involved because obviously... 

Becky:
That's what I mean, I think there isn't everyone involved. That single person suffering from it, and I do mean suffer from it, is going to have some level of personal ecosystem. Either it's just work colleagues, or it's a family in the home, or relationships, friends, family, whatever, who are around, who will somehow be affected. Even if it's just to cope, similar to me, they shut themselves away, family friends, whoever, are missing out on being with them and don't really understand why. So having a plan, I like your idea of having a plan. 

Maz:
Well, it's just, to me, it's the same as, I mean, I'm not obviously in any way diminishing it, but it's the same as anything else. Any other challenge that you come up against as a couple or as a family, the best way to deal with it is to kind of come together and figure out how to keep everyone in the loop and involve everybody and have a sort of a strategy to be able to...to kind of cope with it as it's happening, and then move through it and out the other side. So I think that the, and this isn't to say that having a strategy is going to mean there aren't gonna be any problems whatsoever, but I think at least it means that, okay, you're having a bad day with this, so you go and do X, Y, or Z, and I react in such and such a way, and we kind of just, get through it. 

But I think it would be a problem if it was all left up to chance. Because as you say, when you're in that moment... 

Becky:
Which I would do if it weren't for you getting us to communicate and suggesting something like a plan. 

Maz:
But I think that's where, in a way, we're probably lucky that we balance each other out because you're short-term doer, achiever, and I'm long-term big picture person.

And so that's, I suppose, where I kind of come into my own a bit is trying to think about it in those terms. Because it is something that we can, that obviously people get through it, but it's trying to get through it with as many aspects of those relationships intact as possible. 

17:49
Becky:
And together. Well, yeah, of course. I can understand that relationships would break up during this time. It's a period of change. 

Maz:
Well, they do, don't they?

Becky:
Like I said, I have been readily ready to walk away from our relationship in that moment. But it's bullshit because obviously I'm not. But if you were someone who wasn't persistent in finding out the root cause of something or just we're communicative and we support each other most of the time, whatever, then I could say something or do something, this is what worries me, that you'd go, okay then, fuck off.! And then that's the end of the relationship.

Maz:
But for you as well, obviously, it exacerbates, it triggers that whole not being good enough thing as well. Because going back to what you were saying before, I mean, as well as the physical symptoms that you're not really having at the moment, I imagine possibly on a par or even worse is the personality change that seems to happen for some women. And for you in particular, I think being somebody who's ended up building a lot of their self-esteem on being self-reliant and being knowledgeable and always having the answer. Right now you don't always have the answer. I mean, you might be... 

Becky:
I do not like feeling vulnerable either. 

Maz:
No, and you might be more forgetful and you might... So all of that is on top of the hormones is going to be disconcerting and it's going to kind of make you wonder who you are at the moment and all of that potentially could play into not being good enough. So I think that's why it's important to kind of demystify all of that stuff. And also to kind of just really kind of get rid of that idea that this is an embarrassing thing to talk about, as you were saying at the beginning. There's no reason why it should be. Everybody, all women will go through it to varying degrees at some point. There's no reason to feel you have to keep it to yourself or hide it away.

Because that's only going to exacerbate things for all involved. You know, you've got to get this stuff out. 

Becky:
Yeah. 

Maz:
And, yeah. 

Becky:
Do you think our plan could be that when I'm finding things really hard, I can go to a spa hotel for 24 hours? 

Maz:
That sounds like it would be very convenient. What do I get to do when you're at the spa? 

Becky:
Well, you get to not have me being a bitch. You're just like, okay, bye. 

20:11
Maz:
Yeah, done. Fair enough. Sounds good.

Becky:
And I think there's the whole thing of communication as well, because obviously, we've mentioned before, we have children, six-year-old twins, and they've noticed, I put a Facebook post to my friends the other day to say that I was being grumpy. One of the girls was running around screaming, being excited, playing with Maz, and it just went completely through me. And so on the second scream, I was like, will you be quiet? And I can shout quite loudly. I've got quite a big voice when I want to use it.

And so the whole house kind of stopped for a split second. And I was still too, in the moment, feeling angry to do anything there and then. But 10 minutes later, we're in the car and I'm driving them to summer camp. And I just felt a bit more me. So I was able to apologize and say, I'm really sorry that I shouted, that wasn't fair, just to explain. I was feeling a bit, because my introvert tendency, I don't like noise. I was just feeling a bit headachy and the noise just got a bit too much. But there was no need for me to shout that, so I'm really sorry and one of the girls said oh yeah you made me jump and the other one said but Mumma, I thought you wearing those patches on your legs meant that you weren't grumpy, I thought they were supposed to help your grump?
And that's the way I've explained it because obviously they see that I'm wearing a patch, what's that? So I thought well sometimes I feel a bit grumpy and so it's supposed to help but now I think they think I could never be grumpy.

So, but that's a good task for me. So if it's not hormonal, there should be no excuse. The fighter gets any level of grumpiness. 

Maz:
Yeah, I suppose I was just thinking that whether it's that example or any other instances where you feel that kind of, not a red mist, but when you feel that sort of switch. 

Becky:
Yes.

21:55
Maz:
Although I suppose it's been quite, the effects of all of this have been, yeah, the last 12 months or so. Have you managed to come up with anything practical that you feel we can do as a family when you're in that frame of mind? Like when it's hit that 100%? And I know your initial instinct might be there's kind of no going back from it when you're in. 

Becky:
Honestly, how I feel. But the problem is, and I've had this because I've struggled with hormones on a monthly cycle for ad-infinitum. And my go-to is to always say, I just want to be on my own and leave me, like ignore me as much as you can because I can't help how I'm being. And now I see, wow, I really can't help how I'm being. Whereas before maybe I could have pushed through it. 

Maz:
Oh,  fraud watch. 

Becky:
I know. But now definitely not. And so because I can't, at the moment I can't help what I'm saying or thinking. I'm just, as you said, the red mist comes down, whether it be that habitual thing or whatever. And so I don't want anyone in the firing line.

I don't want to hurt anyone, upset anyone, do whatever, so just, I don't mind if it's like, oh, she's in one, come on, let's go. But I know also that's me clocking out. I appreciate me saying that. I'm clocking out in a way of being a good parent because I'm basically saying, tell the girls to ignore me, and that's not fair. And also, there should be an element of me striving for better because this is unfortunately not going to be over in the next couple of months and there needs to be a better plan of action than me just saying ignore me let me be on my own, but I do think that that is definitely a piece of the puzzle. 
At that point I need to go somewhere and lick my wounds or just escape reading a book or do something which helps me to ride out that wave of hormone without any triggers for me to be oh you've just sat down how very dare you um without any triggers to spark it and then I can move on afterwards. 

Maz:
I think that makes complete sense as long as what we were saying earlier, you tell, well obviously in this case me, you tell me that that's what you're doing. And I know that even that can be difficult in the moment, but I think from my point of view you just being able to say, and I think you're starting to do it, but being able to say, look, I just need to get away, I'm feeling really hormonal. I then know.

I know exactly what that means and I can then compensate if I have to. I think for perhaps the partner of the person going through it, just having that extra little bit of information really helps because it's very difficult sometimes, I'll be honest, it's very difficult to tell if it's not that you're in a really crap mood. It can be really difficult to tell whether it's motivated by hormones or you having not slept properly or it could be anything.

24:59
Becky:
Stress with work or whatever, yeah, yeah.

Maz:
And obviously if it's just a sort of a general stress thing or a lack of sleep thing, it's a little bit, I suppose my reaction to it might be a little bit different because obviously your tendency in the past has been to be a bit more introverted and sometimes that kind of hiding yourself away, it almost becomes a habit in itself.

Becky:
That's true.

Maz:
And you find it difficult to get back out of it. So in the past, I've had to kind of almost intervene a little bit and to kind of say, are you sure this is healthy? Like, you're doing this a little bit too much, and now you're withdrawing more than it seems like you need to. So that's where it really helps me to know, OK, no, if it's a hormonal thing, I kind of just need to be able to leave you to get on with it. And when you're feeling a bit more yourself or you feel like you've got a handle on it, you kind of come back into the fold. I mean, I'm not, obviously, I'm not talking about this in really dramatic terms. It could just be you going into another room and as you say, sort of reading a book or... Even if it's just for 10 minutes, that might be all it needs.

Becky:
But I also find this whole thing around communicating. It was, so I met up with a friend, one of my closest friends and we've been really close friends for 33 years now and I hadn't seen her for at least a year, and we had dinner together the other night and actually shared our experiences of going through it and it made me feel less alone.
I hadn't realised how lonely I feel and being able to just say to someone else, this is what I'm experiencing. And she was experiencing a lot of what I do and then a couple of other bits that I don't, but the whole point was we were like, oh yeah, me too, or the, it meant a lot.

And so one of the things that I, because I am....I don't want it to be a self-fulfilling prophecy and for my life to revolve around it. It should be, oh, you know, I'm back, I'm 45. Yes, I'm perimenopausal, will be in the menopause at some point, but it doesn't define me. I don't need it to be like my be all and end all and my crusade or whatever it was we were saying the other day. But I do want to make sure that it's managed well enough because life is hard enough already and I don't want it to cloud my journey to this kind of fulfilling my potential. I don't want it to be an excuse and I don't want it to cloud it. 
So I am thinking of looking into these women who talk about, you know, working with menopausal women and maybe they're mentors, maybe they have other ways of plan things and that we can implement into a plan. I don't know, but I do feel I'm probably over worrying, but maybe in a way that's a good thing so that I just get this sorted. 

27:37
Maz:
It's a fine line, isn't it? Because I think focusing on it and acknowledging it is really important. But I think there's also the flip side of it is that, of course it's going to affect you, but it's not something that's going to be there most of the time. Because most of the time you're going to be pretty much just yourself. Occasionally you'll have these spikes of... 

Becky:
And HRT surely should help?
 
Maz:
Well, and this is the thing, you've not really been on it for very long, so we don't really know what effect that might have. Yeah. It might have a significant effect. I think it's for you really, and this really plays into previous episodes, it's what you've been hit by particularly is this fear of the unknown. Because you tend to be somebody who's got fairly tight control over the parameters and the boundaries in your life. And now that's really sort of changed. And the word you keep using, change. For you change isn't something necessarily, in the past anyway, isn't something you've necessarily embraced. You've seen it as something that's accompanied, yeah, effort and stressful and something you have to adapt to. And again, I think sometimes you don't give yourself enough credit for your ability to be malleable and adapt to things. 

This is a big change and it's something that, that of course is going to be here for quite a while, and it will unfold quite slowly, but it doesn't necessarily need to be feared as much as I think you perhaps fear it does. 

29:11
Becky:
I was wondering from a male perspective, so on this Facebook post that I did the other day about my patches and helping me feel grumpy or whatever, not feel grumpy, sorry, a guy I went to university with was very kind in sharing actually that he was on testosterone. 

Maz:
Oh yeah. 

Becky:
And he would be at most a year older than me. At least, sorry, a year older than me, because he was a year above me at uni. So he was saying he was on testosterone. And I have read years ago, I was reading through a nutrition book and they were talking about the andropause. And I do wonder if whilst kind of women I feel are embracing more the ability to just be open about monthly cycles or the menopause or struggle with conceiving, all of these things that have in previous decades been completely behind closed doors or even laughed at. I do wonder if there's a, do you feel like you have hormones that affect you on a monthly basis? Like, I don't know, do blokes have that? 
Or is it literally just as the testosterone drops, the andropause kind of kicks in and that's the only thing, it's just one... one change at that point. Do you know anything about it? 

Maz:
I can put my fake medical doctor hat on for you. I'll give it a go, give it the old college try!

Becky:
I was just wondering. 

Maz:
Yeah, well, okay, so I would think that testosterone must be, it's not necessarily cyclical, but obviously it varies even sort of during the day. Your levels vary quite a bit. So as far as I know your testosterone levels can be pretty high first thing in the morning. 

Becky:
So you're best in the morning, so below you need a high level of testosterone to be happy? 

Maz:
Well, and more focused, have more energy. I think that tends to be, as far as I know, tends to be sometime in the morning, tends to be your peak. I remember reading that at some point. I think the andropause is something that, it's a different thing altogether. It isn't quite such a, as far as I know, it's something that happens quite slowly for most men. So after your, let's say your 30s, your hormone levels naturally start dropping a little bit each year, each decade as you get older and you will naturally feel the effects of that. So I imagine if there are mood changes or kind of physical changes even, it creeps up on you. 

Becky:
So I was wondering if it was partly a contributor to the stereotypical midlife crisis?

31:51
Maz:
Oh, probably. I mean, and I think that other things probably contribute towards that as well. Hmmmm: stereotyping a little bit, that's probably how a lot of men would react if they're not able to communicate. Or to be honest, if it's something that is quite nebulous and you don't really know what's going on, I imagine that that might be a way that some men deal with it is just to do something different, try something different; the old sort of recapturing your youth because subconsciously maybe you're aware that you're aging and that that change is gradually coming your way and it's your way of rebelling against it or trying to counter it. There are some men, certainly, and it seems to be something that's even more common these days, who suffer with low testosterone levels much younger.
And I think that there's more of an awareness of that, but I tend to think that's more in the health and fitness industries, where things like that are spoken about a bit more openly. And there are some celebrities, I think, who've been quite open about the use of TRT. So I think that that's moving in a positive direction. I think it's just not spoken about as much. 
And there isn't that sort of sudden...there's no real equivalent of the menopause in men. 

Becky:
Well yeah, I suppose we have that physical thing each month that then is trying to stop. 

Maz:
But it is true to say, I think, that even if you're someone in your 30s and 40s, if you're a man, and you notice that your mood has changed significantly, you have less energy, you're more lethargic, it might be one of the things to consider. There's no harm in speaking to a GP about it and getting a blood test to see.

If you're not kind of acting as you normally would and you notice a marked change in the way you feel, the way you are around the people you love, then yeah, there's no harm in finding out. And if you find out your levels are low, there is something that can be done about it and it might help.

33:57
Becky:
I think that's really important. I just didn't want it to all be about me and just the menopause, because as I said, I think it can affect those people around the person who's suffering, but also I think that there is element of hormone fluctuation that can have a negative impact on blokes as well.
And I was talking to this amazing biomechanical massage lady who was helping me with some of the crappy muscles I've got at the moment from my strength training and running and she was saying that there'd been some sports tests on women who were going through the menopause and apparently the capability remains the same. So whether you're going through the menopause or having time of the month, you're able to achieve, it doesn't diminish your strength, speed, whatever, but it does affect the pain threshold. It does affect the sensitivity to pushing yourself through to the limit. So just like you saying, "oh, if you're feeling like you're just not yourself", I think it's also the same if you are doing sports or you're doing something like "actually I feel a bit weaker" or I just feel, yeah, it doesn't have to be so dramatic as feeling more angry or feeling more tearful. It can just be, I feel under par but I don't have any reason for it because my nutrition's OK, or my sleep's OK, so what on earth can it be? And not just brushing it under the carpet. Because if we're in the vein of we want to be the best we can be, why the hell would we let something as silly as hormones take us back and keep us back from being able to achieve that? 

Maz:
Yeah, yeah. And I think, obviously, the more that is spoken about, whether it's men or women, hopefully the less of this stigmatising. And it's just a part of life. It happens to everybody to some extent. And the quicker you sort of do something about it, whether it is HRT or whatever, or lifestyle things that kind of come into it as well, that might help alleviate some of the symptoms, there's no point in pretending it's not happening. You might as well do something about it and put as many things in place to sort of keep your life on track and keep it going where you want it to go.

Because it's not going to be there forever. It's going to... Things, even that change will eventually morph into something else. 

36:08
Becky:
Exactly, and don't push everything away when you're in the moment. Because when you come out the other side, you don't want to regret anything, do you? Yeah. Either it holding you back from being even further along in your journey, or just, yeah, you've pissed off so many people, you are alone. Don't want that to happen.

I feel like I've covered everything I wanted to cover. I mean, not that I had a plan, to be fair, but there was just, I just wanted a chance to talk about it. Anything else that you want to add, some final words? 

Maz:
Oh, yeah, on the spot. No, but I mean, obviously this is something we could easily come back to at some point, if more things come up. 

Becky:
Well, I don't mind checking in and saying if I've found anyone and what a couple of those things are that are in the plan. I think it's because I want to look ahead and not just accept it. I want it to be a good thing, looking at myself again. 
Anything, I think you've said it in a previous episode, that when you're an odd one out, you're struggling against it, it does actually give you that chance to pause and be self-reflective. And seek ways to be better. And actually, this kind of challenge in the road, this obstacle in the road in terms of it being the menopause looming. Then yeah, I want to use that as a chance to dig deep and find some other ways of being me. And yeah, hopefully come out the other side even better.

37:21
Maz: 
Yes. 

Becky:
Yes. Well, if you're still listening, thank you so much. I really appreciate it and we hope you have an amazing rest of the day, whatever's left of it. Thank you so much. 

Maz:
Yep. See you next week. 

Becky:
Take care.