Owning your Truth

                                                           Episode 10 Owning Your Truth

00:05 Intro (Becky)

Welcome to the Odd Ones Out podcast. If you ever feel like you're on the outside looking in, you are not alone. Let's challenge our limiting beliefs and embrace who we truly are.

00:24
Becky:
Welcome to the Odd Ones Out podcast with your hosts, Beck and Maz.!

Maz:
Whey, it's us again.

Becky:
I just had it in my head just then about the Blind Date, that guy who was always the announcer for everything on television, although did you ever watch that?

Maz:
I did, but I'm thinking this is probably a very contemporary reference and anyone under the age of, I don't know, 30 odd is probably not going to have a clue what we're talking about.

Becky:
He runs as fast as Linford Christie!

Maz:
Ah, he drives like Nigel Mansell!

Becky:
Okay, fair enough, fair enough. Well, we're on episode 10. That's super cool. I'm really chuffed about that, actually. That's really, really good. And we thought, because bless you if you've listened to all the other episodes, and bless you anyway if this is the first one you've heard, but we thought we might do a bit of a taking stock, looking back at where we've come all the way through the previous nine episodes and put a marker in the ground as we look ahead so that you can know what to expect if you're going to stay with us on this journey. Because I think that's only fair that we give you a heads up of, okay, well, you've covered that now, now what, what's next?

Maz:
Yeah.

Becky:
And in terms of the taking stock, we were thinking about just, I suppose just talking to each other, finding out how we're feeling about how it's gone and anything that's thrown up because that's....it's made us think of or feedback we might have had from people. So I'm just going to put it out there. Maz, how are you feeling about the podcast so far?

Maz:
Well, I've enjoyed it. I mean, it's, I think a lot of the time, even well before this podcast, we'd talk quite naturally about some of this stuff. Sure. And obviously in the past, I've had therapy and all sorts of bits and pieces. So it's not like I'm not used to talking about this stuff, but I guess the way that we've broken it down, talking about the whole root conviction thing, talking about how it drives behaviour, maybe perhaps clarifies it a little bit. It makes it a little bit easier to see, okay, this is where I come from, this is where you come from. And maybe going forward, it'll make it a bit easier to sort of work out or discuss what we try and do about it and what potentially we could do about it to make life a little bit easier.

I suppose alongside that, it's made me feel, I've had moments of feeling quite sad about it as well. Just because it's a reminder, isn't it? As much as we do talk about these things, it's quite sort of stark, especially when you're editing the podcast as I do, seeing all these headlines and, you know, podcasts about negativity, podcasts about not feeling good enough or not belonging.

Becky:
Does it trigger a self-judgement thing?

Maz:
No, it's not that. It's actually more the other way, more a self-compassion thing. But with that inevitably, can't get the word out, feel a bit sad. But it's a manageable thing.

03:20
Becky:
If it's compassionate, that's great. Because actually-

Maz:
Yeah, I'd say so.

Becky:
-I tend to go down the self pity road. Oh, poor me, look at everything I've had to go through. And that's not helpful either. So you manage to do compassion?

Maz:
I think so. I'm not saying that that's my default position on everything. But I think with this, it's definitely been there in the background somewhere where I can take stock and realise, okay, it's actually really helpful to do this kind of thing. It's helpful to know where these things come from and to just put it out there. Even if it wasn't on the podcast, it's just a good thing to do, to be transparent and to be honest with yourself.

Becky: I suppose that's my main thing. So you've had the joy of listening back because you've done the editing and actually...

Maz:
Several times.

Becky:
But it's not that it's been edited to fuck or anything, come on. It's not like you're about to do...

Maz:
I had to cut out all those c***s and f***s.

Becky:
Mazin! He hasn't! Anyway, but I suppose I've had it from more of a posting, like each time it goes to be published, there's that tiny bit of me that's going "eek", people are going to hear about the stuff that goes on in my head or the things I struggle with. Or actually there might be people, I don't know, extended friends of family, you know, my Mum's generation, who if they bother listening to it, hi by the way if you are, if they bother listening to it, might be like, oh, I never knew that. And it becomes a bit, you know, you worry about it being gossipy, but then I'm starting to think too much about judgement.
And actually the main focus for us is more if we share, maybe that's encouraging and helping others who might feel the same way that we do or experience similar things, but not necessarily have a platform to either talk about it or just not know they're not alone. And that's one of the reasons why I wanted to share. So I'm having to move along from the whole, it's just been published, or I've just tried to share it via a social channel or whatever and thinking it's out there, whereas you get the joy of listening to it back and back and back. So I don't know, maybe that also influences how we feel about it.

05:39
Maz:
I suppose we do have different roles when it comes to this podcast, but actually is there any feedback that you've had so far, even if it's just general feedback that's made you feel a bit odd about having this stuff out there or made you feel a bit conflicted or... Because it's important to lay all this stuff out.

Becky:
Yeah, and I suppose at least acknowledge what's been given. A couple of people have been incredibly kind and given their feedback in terms of it being something that's good. I actually quite like constructive feedback as well for some reason. Maybe it ties in with the whole negativity episode if you've listened to it, but it's more for some reason that adds more weight. It's got a bit more weight than someone saying, you know, this was super good. However, when someone, anyone who gives feedback, I think is being kind with their time whether it's positive, negative, whatever, I actually think, well, thanks for taking the time to share.

But I think actually that you asked me that question makes me think more about when I've tried to share how I'm feeling before. Now, obviously this isn't a counselling session. And I've also seen counsellors that have gone through therapy at different points of my life, through milestones that I found challenging. But I've tried to grapple with that feeling of not feeling good enough for the things that might hold me back for a number of years. 

And obviously, since we've been together, you've done an amazing job of helping me address that and giving me suggestions on how, what lens to look through and what to try. And so thank you. But at those times, there have been times when I've tried to say, oh, I don't feel good enough, or I've had this issue or I've been thinking about this thing from my childhood. And I've had very kind people, very kind, say "oh, don't be daft, of course you're good enough, or, oh, that's not something, it's in the past, you know, don't worry about it, it's not something that you need to focus on, look at all you're achieving now"... whatever it might be. 

And actually that very kind dismissiveness doesn't help at all. In fact, sometimes if I'm feeling particularly hormonal or down, I just hear the dismissiveness and it feeds into, well, you're not worth taking seriously, which is really unfair because that's never been the intention of the people that I may have tried speaking to. But it does make me think about, like me referring earlier to when I hit publish, and that concern about judgment, particularly if they're people who know me but might not know that thing about me, even if they're acquaintances, neighbours or parents at school or extended family.

I can't control how somebody's going to hear it. And I think that there is a natural instinct to keep cards close to one's chest, because you don't want that judgement. And unfortunately, we as human beings, many of us are quick to judge, even if it's unintentionally, you know, not wanting to be unkind.

But that whole thing about concern how people might take it, linking to people being kind of dismissive in the past, if I've tried to share, I'm finding this thing difficult, that thing difficult, has actually made me think in recent days and knowing that we were going to do a podcast of "looking back" about how hard it is sometimes to own my truth. So once, many, many years ago, I think I was a teenager. I tried talking to a family member outside the nuclear family about struggling with my dad's temper and the fact that he hit us. And she said, and she knew him incredibly well, no, don't be daft, he didn't do that. He's not done that. And I think because she felt so uncomfortable talking about it, that she dismissed it. I can't imagine why you would assume immediately the child was lying. 

So I can only, as an adult, look back and say, oh, she must've felt incredibly uncomfortable and didn't know how to say it. But at the time, I just felt unheard. I felt this is actually happening, and you're dismissing it to the point where I now have nowhere to go. And I'm not needing to call child social services or anything else, I just wanted to speak to somebody who knows him and loves him and say how I'm feeling. And so that truth in a way was taken away from me. And I wonder how often we find it too easy to either not share that truth or have it taken away because we are quick to allow someone else's opinion or response and reaction to be far more important and outweigh our own feeling, especially if we feel like an odd one out or struggle. 

10;26
Maz:
Yeah, that's interesting. I think, as you sort of alluded to, everybody probably experiences that to an extent. But it's really, I mean, I've found over the years, same kind of things have happened to me really, that I will recollect things or will have absorbed things in a certain way. And then might have talked to someone about it and their recollection or their version of events is different. But it's keeping in mind that facts aren't just facts. If you look at things purely in terms of a historical timeline and this happened at this point, it doesn't do it justice. It's facts alongside interpretation, alongside the feelings you had and how those things all mesh together.

So even if exactly, two people can have exactly the same factual recollection of something, but how they feel about it and what they took away from it could be completely different. And I think it is really important to sort of make sure that however one feels, even if it's uncomfortable or if it's at odds with other people's versions of events, it's important to take note of that and to use it.

It's useful information. It's there for a reason. It can give us loads of clues about where we are at that moment or where we are in life in general. And I think it's really, it's crucial to sort of not dismiss it and not do the thing that most people do, which is just to go, it must just be, yeah, it must just be me. Perhaps I sort of looked at it in the wrong way or whatever it might be.

12:12
Becky:
And I think that it's key. I know we've got a really nice kind of societal thing happening now where people are being encouraged to be themselves and that we should all be accepting of others. And whether I've seen this or it's just heard it or whatever, but that you're allowed to feel how you feel. However you feel is right for you. Don't let somebody else tell you that that's not, you shouldn't be feeling that way. But I think there is that: how can we move forward if we don't own how we are feeling and what has driven that feeling to materialise in the first place? So for example, it might be that there are things from my childhood that could be considered selective memory, for example, but as a child, how I was feeling and my experiences meant that those were the things that mattered to me at that time and unfortunately if they were negative, were added to my little bucket of this is how I feel and this is how I'm valued or not or whatever and that set me on a path. 

Now if I took one thing from those memories that were that yes it happened but it was once in a blue moon but for some reason that's the thing that stuck in my head, it doesn't detract from the fact that that's what's caused me to feel the way I feel now. The most important thing, as you were saying, is rather than just holding onto it... "wait, but look at this memory and this is how it makes me feel." Actually, what am I then going to do with it? 

Maz:
Well, because it's, yeah, and the important thing to realise is even if you look back and you could say that particular incident objectively looks really sort of benign, there doesn't seem to have been anything in it, the temptation is just to go, I've got to go over myself. 

Becky:
I've done that so often. I should get over that. 

Maz:
But the point is that whatever was going on in your life up to that point, you were primed to take that on board for a reason. The conditions in your brain, in the environment around you, were such that you paid attention to that particular thing. It meant something. You valued it more than objectively you think you should have for a reason. And that can be really helpful. And we all have that. I mean, I'm sure everybody does. And I think the knack with all of this is to recognise that an accumulation of that stuff can make us feel, going back to the podcast, like an Odd One Out. 

Becky:
Yeah. 

Maz:
And it can make us feel like we don't fit in. But actually, even that in itself doesn't have to be a bad thing. It means it can provide us with a level of self-awareness. It means that, in a way, we have an advantage that some people probably never have, which is that we can self-assess and we can look at these things. And perhaps we can get a bit closer to building the life that we want to because we're paying attention to all of these clues and to all of these things that have happened in the past and not being afraid of it and trying to embrace it. And I know that's a difficult thing to do, especially if whatever makes you feel like an Odd One Out or someone who doesn't kind of conform, if that kind of thing makes you feel particularly uncomfortable and there may be more work to do depending on the circumstances to sort of get to a more comfortable place with it.

15:33
Becky:
So is it more that, so if one's not feeling like an Odd One Out, you're more likely to address why you feel like an Odd One Out, or embrace the fact that you feel like an odd one out. And either of those paths, and I'm sure there are more, can help us dive deeper into who we are and what we want from life, rather than those who we might watch seemingly having it effortless...having a life that has great parents, really good school structure, nice friendship group, nothing too amazing. It's quite standard, if you like. And then they coast maybe, and they don't need to ever address actually who am I on a deeper level because life is a nice life. So actually, as you're saying, the advantage is you get a bit more gritty.

Actually, what do I really, really want? Who am I really, rather than just accepting what life comes our way? 

Maz:
But sort of, yeah. From my point of view, feeling, if you have that sort of recognition that you're an Odd One Out, for whatever reason, obviously we've outlined some of the ways in which we feel that way. But to me, that's an opportunity. It gives you a chance to be able to look at yourself in depth and to really take stock and work out where you want to go with your life. And with the complete understanding that might not be easy. If you have had a relatively straightforward life and you haven't had those overt, obvious challenges, it's not that I think that those people are necessarily missing out on something, it's just a different path. They're on the path that they're supposed to be on. 

And maybe they don't need those moments of self-realisation and really kind of getting to know who they are at their core, because there's no impetus to do that, that they can go through life in a sort of a comfort zone of sorts, or on a path that's either predetermined or one that they find naturally. 

But for someone like me and you, and I'm sure a lot of other people, having a knowledge of what makes you feel that you stand out or that you're an odd one out, but then doing something with it and not just dismissing or seeing it as sort of an abhorrent thing that you have to fight against all the time is I think it's a real strength. It can really help you to make decisions that are really kind of right for you on all sorts of levels in a sort of a holistic way. 

Becky:
Hmm. I wonder if you're listening and actually you're someone who strives to be an Odd One Out, who really enjoys, and I don't mean who's antagonistic, but if you are, you know, tell us. But who strives to actually not conform, who really appreciates their unique identity and the things that you like to embrace things that are just a bit outside the norm, whatever that be, a particular hobby that you're like, fuck it, I don't care if no one else understands it or enjoys it, this is me and this is what I want to do. Then can you share it? If you haven't seen it already, I know we've mentioned it in a previous podcast, we've got a Twitter that we're just wanting to use as a, so it's @oddonesoutpod, I think. Oh God, I'm going to have to look it up. But we'll have a look on the episode description. It might be @oddonesoutpodcast as the Twitter handle. But that's where we're hoping to start having some proper kind of Q&As and really get the community discussion going and kind of sharing things amongst ourselves. And you could raise something that we could talk about. 

But I'd be really interested because I have gone through my life feeling so shy of not really knowing who I am and not feeling good enough, that I spent a lot of time trying to conform. And I still have it where other people's opinions are more important than my own. Unless I have a really strong conviction, which tends to happen more in my professional life than in my personal life, if somebody says something, particularly if it's constructive, I will go away and overthink that rather than go, nah, I don't agree with that. That's not where I am and just moving on. I will actually stick with it like a dog with a bone. I can't move on. And it's that link between fear of judgment or concern for other people's opinions or wanting to know what other people are thinking that actually I think hold me back from embracing my old ones out thing. And also it's been in my mind in terms of how I've been feeling about the podcast so far.

I can't just put something out there and say, yeah, I'm really proud of that. I am proud of it. I have a but. And that but is always nice and weighty. 

20;24
Maz:
Yeah, but I think that's where, from my point of view, you have to have some self-compassion as well, because I think that's a common thing to do. I mean, the fact that you're able to put a lot of stuff out there, and I don't just mean on the podcast, but you are somebody who talks, at least I'd say most of the... most people who know you would say that you talk quite freely, you don't come across in a particularly guarded way. I think you have to give yourself that self-praise, the fact that you're able to do it in the first place. And if you have a post-commentary afterwards where you're over-analysing or over-thinking it, I think it's just about being kinder to yourself and knowing that that's natural for you, perhaps because you're somebody who really cares about...not just what other people think of you, but just you care in general about what's out there. 

Becky:
Oh, I see. It's going to sound really wanky. I actually had that as one of my superpowers once. There were people who were... 

Maz:
Superpowers, you say? 

Becky:
There was a startup community thing, and one of the women was setting it off like, oh, what's your founder, startup founder, superpower? And then they started talking about people who are really, I don't know, focused and this and that. And I just care.

I really care. And that sound, and the problem is, I hear something like that, and I mean it, but I hear something like that and it sounds weak. In my mind, I'm like, oh God, is it really? Is that what you're going to say? Because that sounds really like, I care. The problem is I do, and because I care, I tend to be more considerate and thoughtful and care. And yeah, I was going to say caring, I'm like, duh.

Maz:
I care that I care! But what... what makes you think, because it's interesting to me, what makes you think in the first place that that's weak? Is that a societal thing, do you think, or is it an upbringing thing? 

Becky:
Yeah, I don't know, because I had a mother who chose a profession that wasn't just teaching, which is obviously nurturing young minds, but also those young minds had a difficult start in life because they were physically or mentally disabled. And then you have my dad who chose to go down the vocation route of being a vicar where he was central to a community in West London that wasn't very wealthy It was in Acton and at the time... God knows if it's really posh now but it wasn't in the 80s and was really supporting loads of people who were struggling on the breadline and With lots of mental health problems and both of them chose caring professions. 

So I don't think it was more an upbringing thing, but I think maybe societal, maybe because we tend to praise people who are really confident and really strong and really visionary and have a, I don't know, sometimes people who are a bit more dismissive and step on people because we're like, oh okay, I don't know. And so caring sounds like a supportive role rather than a leading role and leading is a good thing.

23:30
Maz:
Yeah, I think the thing is that particularly in this country, in the UK, we tend to be, I'd say the majority of us tend to be introverts. So I guess if someone's being an extrovert and they're showing extrovert tendencies, they're standing out in that sort of more look at me kind of way, then more attention is going to be on them naturally because they're something a little bit different. And so obviously in the media it's a standard thing that they always focus on people with those kind of traits.

So I guess if you have traits that are more along the lines of being caring or kind, I don't know, perhaps you just don't get the same kind of role models, perhaps it just isn't talked about as much as it should be.

Becky:
Yeah, that's true. And one of the reasons why I'm talking about kind of introvert, extrovert is tying this in with the whole conforming thing and judging thing and making sure I just want to keep hammering it home how important it is that we all feel like we have a voice and that we know that whatever our truth is, it's our truth. It's what we've experienced and what we've kept with us to be who we are today. And that no one's opinion is greater than ours. 

And I do wonder sometimes with introvert, extrovert, are we quick to stereotype people that if someone's an extrovert, they are less likely to have an issue because, and actually someone who's an introvert is more likely to be crying themselves to sleep or suffering with depression rather than just being someone who's calm and considered. Do we feel like we have a certain persona that we are showing to the outside world and it's maybe we just don't want to show people the cracks and that's what stops us from communicating to the people we care about, about what's going on. Because as I said, being kindly dismissed..."don't be daft, you are good enough, look at what you've achieved or you're loved and you've got these friends, don't be daft". It's like actually that's still my root conviction, that's still, unfortunately that's still what drives my behaviours. No matter what I'm presenting, that's there and it's truth and it's fact and whether someone can say your memories are from childhood, for example, or selective memories, doesn't matter. That's what I have taken with me and I think that was just, I went off on a bit of a tangent with the extrovert-introvert thing.

I think it's just I want to cover off all those different things about how important it is we don't get so wrapped up in conforming that we miss something. And that's being ourselves and achieving our full potential, and also making the most of being an Odd One Out.

26;10
Maz:
Hmm. Yeah, of course. And the point is, although it can be hard to say, and it has been for me for years, actually, it's really... It's important that we're a collection of unique individuals who all have something different to offer. And you're not going to be able to offer that if, A, you try too hard to conform, or if that becomes a goal on its own. And also if you don't feel comfortable with the things that make you unique, your life story, your truth... even if parts of it are traumatic, there are ways of getting past that and to still come out the other side and embrace the effects, but perhaps it's made you more introspective, for example. It can be a valuable thing.

So it's not saying there's always a silver lining, but I think too much emphasis perhaps generally is put on certain traits, certain qualities, and less so on the more, I don't know.

Becky:
I suppose being ourselves. Conversations are so much more, they're richer and more interesting if you get groups of people together who have that differing opinion and still value and listen to each other, but bring something different to the party rather than all being the same. And that being ourselves, actually that leads me into, okay, well, where the hell is all of this going? We've done a lot of talking today. Sorry. Hope you're still with us. Thank you if you are. But we are wanting a, where do we look ahead now in terms of where this podcast is going and what do we want, to hopefully be a value for you to stick with us and continue listening?

Maz:
Yeah, because I think what we've done so far is to talk a bit about our backgrounds, our past, why we feel the way that we do. And I think that's something we'll continue to do periodically as it comes up.

Becky:
Yeah.

28;11
Maz:
I think we sort of feel that this podcast, hopefully a lot of the time will be us, talking as we do in day-to-day life, the kind of conversations we might have at home naturally about how we feel, what's going on in our lives. Even if there's an event coming up that might be triggering certain feelings, I wonder if it might be interesting to put that out there as well and make that sort of part of the podcast, but there are also I think there are other things that we were thinking of introducing a bit further down the line weren't there? 

Becky:
Yeah, so I mean it'd be great at some point in the future to bring guests in for example where you won't have to just be listening to our dulcet tones but bringing someone in who is perhaps an expert in their field in terms of well-being but maybe also who has experienced themselves that Odd Ones Out and how they've come to that and how they deal with it but I think ultimately it's just trying to encourage open conversation and sharing how we feel. Because I think there's a lot of store placed on achievements and tick boxes and functioning, and we lose ourselves. I have to say that, yeah, hands up, Maz is wriggling his eyebrows at me because he knows damn well that that's what I do. But this is part of the point, isn't it? It's sharing that journey. I no longer, I don't want to be that human doing, I want to be more of a human being.

I think I might have said that before as well. Therapy said that to me years ago, drop the mic. But that, you know, the journey that we're on to reaching our full potential and whether we fuck up along the way or things are working for us, hopefully by us sharing what we are talking about naturally and experiencing, never know if it helps you or if it's just of interest to you, that would be amazing. 

Maz:
Yeah, yeah.

30:00
Becky:
But for now, take care of yourselves, and each other. 

Maz:
More contemporary references, Jerry Springer fans! See you all next week. 

Becky:
I can't help it, I'm old!

Maz:
Bye.

Becky:
Bye.